MudFlaps

listener · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: Meaning of Bible verses

I am going to do almost all of my reading this year in the New Testament. I am reading the book of Luke and have already came across several verses that I have difficulty knowing the meaning of. I thought I will see what others think. My purpose is definitely not to mock the Bible but simply to see how others see certain verses. I invite others to do the same. Here is my first verse.

18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. Luke 22:18 kjv

What is the kingdom of God referred to here? Does this suggest an earthly kingdom in which Jesus participates as a human?

Is there drinking of the fruit of the vine in heaven?

other

Mudloggerone · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 29716 Location: Franklin Parish

It is my belief that the answer to both of your questions are yes.

Yes there will be a 1000 year period of time when Jesus will rule an earthly kingdom from Israel and I believe that's the kingdom that he is referring to in the verse.

I also believe there'll will be wine not only present during his earthly kingdom but later in the Heavenly kigdom as well.

Jesus drank wine, that's no secret but he condemded drinking to the point of drunkiness. Was the wine that Jesus drank non-alcoholic in nature as many have suggested? I just do not know and I think that it's impossible to say with any certainity. I do know he never got drunk because getting drunk is described as a sin and the Bible plainly teaches that Jesus never sinned. I can find nothing in the Bible that convinces me that having a drink is a sin but there's plenty that says getting drunk is a sin.

Anyway I certainly am not trying to rehash the old debate was the wine that Jesus drank simply grape juice or the real, fermented stuff that we know as wine here and that wasn't the question that you asked Listener.
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listener · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am Post subject:

In the version that I read wine instead of fruit of the vine was used but I chose the kjv so as not to make the content the issue. I stopped reading when I read the 18th verse and asked the question. The next few verses suggested what your answer does. That further reading brought on another question or two, one of which was this: is it likely that the disciples knew Jesus was talking about something that was to occur in the distant future?

Mudloggerone · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 29716 Location: Franklin Parish

No I don't think they realized it at all Listener and I think the writings attributed to them bear this out. The followers of Jesus expected an earthly kingdom during their lifetime.
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I'm a happy Deplorable that likes my Crumbs!
Cat 2-15, Lil' 3-20, 13 yr 3-21 (lace)

listener · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject:

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:8

When I read this I assumed mayby Spirit meant Holy Spirit. I read a study Bible that confirmed that is the meaning of the word Spirit so with that in mind what do you think is being said in this verse?

granny · Joined: 23 Nov 2011 Posts: 631 Location: The Bee Room

Oh you knew I wasn't gonna let this slide, eh. Wink

Sorry, mr mud and others.. but after my visitor yesterday stated nearly the same thing concerning drinking wine, I knew I had to come back & finish this.

He said some folks are able to take a glass (or can, whatever) and be okay. They won't get drunk. Mad

I told him, all drunks started with just one glass/can, whatever. He sat in silence.

Then I said, "do you honestly think the Lord would tempt us like that? Who's to know who will and will not get drunk." Then he said "well Jesus could handle it" .. The conversation went downhill after that and he will never be convinced otherwise - but he knows he can't handle his booze, so he tries to steer clear of beer.

Now here's a link (bottom) with all the topics covering biblical wine, etc. There's more on the web, but this is much in one place. I'm thankful it can be viewed in the light... someone out there may need/read it.

*1 MORE THAN A MIRACLE OR LESS
*ALCOHOL TEST
*ALCOHOLIC WINE
*EXAMPLES OF ABSTINENCE FAILURE
*OLD WINE VERSUS NEW WINE
*ONLY ONE KIND
*SEVENTY-FOUR REFERENCES AGAINST DRINKING
*THE CHRISTIAN LIBERTY ARGUMENT
*The CUP of DEVILS
*The High Cost of Alcohol
*THE JESUS DRANK ALCOHOL ARGUMENT
*THE JESUS MADE WINE ARGUMENT
*THE LITTLE WINE HARMLESS ARGUMENT
*THE UNDERLYING WORDS FOR WINE
*THEIR WINE VERSUS OUR WINE ARGUMENT
*USING YOUR TITHE FOR STRONG DRINK

http://theflamingtorch.org/booze.htm
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Honey is sweet,
but the bee stings.

granny · Joined: 23 Nov 2011 Posts: 631 Location: The Bee Room

I've been hoping our resident clergy would answer your question, listener, on John 3:8 ..

I remember when we worked out at the mission south of town, a few of the apostolics came for our mid-week services. The preacher from Minden was here trying to teach us what he could concerning their doctrine and so they sat in..

It was interesting to say the least and they were usually respectful, a few bumps now & then, but it was okay. (All but once when the preacher got hot-headed with 'em.. they have a way of pushing buttons).

One of the verses was John 3:8. When we sang the song, "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound", well, that is the Holy Ghost they say.

Anyway, the way I understood broRichard, the Holy Spirit is a person just like the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is generally referred to as the 3rd person of the Godhead.

Jesus compared the Holy Spirit and His work to the wind. The wind cannot be seen but it is real (likewise faith, imo).

The effects of the wind can be seen and felt, atho' we can't predict where it will go. Wind has power to help (cool breezes), and the power to destroy (tornadoes, etc).

The power of the Holy Spirit is the power of God. He can comfort, convict, or destroy. He is almighty God.
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Honey is sweet,
but the bee stings.

listener · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:37 am Post subject:

19A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things. Eccleaistes 10:19

listener · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject:

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/bible.show/sVerseID/26129/eVerseID/26129

Here is one commentary on John 3:8 Does anyone other than I see a suggestion of predestination in the verse and in the commentary.

listener · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject:

48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 13:48

As many as were ordained?

granny · Joined: 23 Nov 2011 Posts: 631 Location: The Bee Room

Hiya listener! You know I know absolutely nada about this kind of stuff, so I get "help"... here's what my friend Bro David Cloud has to say in his book, "Things Hard to be Understood".

I will try to copy as carefully as he wrote it.. would be better if I could scan it, lol.

From Bro Cloud---

"Verse 48 says some of the Gentiles believed, "as many as were ordained to eternal life." That is God's election. I don't believe any man fully and clearly understands these great issues.

The Bible says God desires all men to be saved (1Tim 2:4-6; 2Peter 3:9). The salvation invitation is to be made to all men, and whosoever will may come (Rev 22:17).

God is not in the business of mocking men. The salvation invitation is genuinely open to every man who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Though men are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1) and though no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him (John 6:44), the Bible also states that He enlightens all men and draws all men (John 12:32).

It is also important to note that the Bible says God's election is based upon His foreknowledge (1Peter 1:2). It is possible, therefore, that God foresees those who will receive Christ and bases His election upon this.

Roman 8:29-30 indicates that God's election and predestination has to do with what the believer is destined to be, not with who will believe and who will not believe."

>>> granny here: If you haven't already, why not check out www.baptistboard.com - they have a place for such as these type of questions, as I've seen the calvinists and armenians duke it out, lol. (I think). This has never interested me, as I don't consider myself one or the other - just a plain ol'baptist. I think you would find much in common with many of those gents over there. Just watch the rules... but you being baptist can post anywhere I think (except for the private ladies place; I have never been in there either.)

>>> from the Webster's 1828

ORDA'IN, v.t. [L. ordino, from ordo, order.]

1. Properly, to set; to establish in a particular office or order; hence, to invest with a ministerial function or sacerdotal power; to introduce and establish or settle in the pastoral office with the customary forms and solemnities; as, to ordain a minister of the gospel. In America, men are ordained over a particular church and congregation, or as evangelists without the charge of a particular church, or as deacons in the episcopal church.

2. To appoint; to decree.

Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month. 1Kings 12.

As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed.
Acts 13.

3. To set; to establish; to institute; to constitute.

Mulmutius ordained our laws.

4. To set apart for an office; to appoint.

Jesus ordained twelve that they should be with him. Mark 3.

5. To appoint; to prepare.

For Tophet is ordained of old. Is. 30.
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Honey is sweet,
but the bee stings.

listener · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:58 am Post subject:

Granny, thanks for your reponse. As you know I see verses that suggest predestination throughout much of the New Testament as I read. I am sure that started as I tried to disprove what seemed so unfair to me in my dad's insistence that "we don't accept Christ; He accepts us or not as He chooses." You can take scripture and support that position as my dad did unquestioningly based on the preaching of his church or as one of my sons does based primarily on his understandings of Paul's teachings.

I think you can use scripture and make a case for works being a basis for salvation based on the idea that being a follower of Jesus, following His teachings, is evidence of believing in Him. (your works don't save you, God does but your works are evidence ogf your belief) I still wrestle with these issues but much less frantically than I once did. My position now is that my salvation is in the hands of God/Jesus which I have difficulty separating and that I hopefully don't have to know with certainty a specific formula but must only ask God to save me a sinner.

listener · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject:

28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. Mark 12:28-34

What do you think Jesus meant in verse 34 when speaking to the scribe who spoke discretely?

listener · Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:51 am Post subject:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+12&version=KJV

Does the last sentence in verse 20 seem of a different tone to the rest of this chapter?