MudFlaps

listener · Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: Spiritual evolution?

There is a strand of belief among some Catholic thinkers that one goal of evolution for humanity is higher states of consciousness as part of a goal of more peace and more spirituality. It has a ring of truth to me. Anyone else see this as a possibility?

UncleBud · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 2236 Location: Peach State

Listener, Listener, Listener….(dat’s da Granny speakin’)! You been readin’ up on too much New Age theology. Seeking a “higher consciousness” presupposes that one would have to find it through such practices a transcendental meditation, or astrology (horoscopes), etc. It may lead one to believe that he could circumvent the “bad” things in the world and achieve perfect peace & harmony on his own….without Christ. It’s sorta akin to everyone thinking he is God! At first glance, it sounds rather like one could achieve a euphoric state of tranquility and live happily ever after. (Isn’t that what some of the hippys tried to do back in the day with drugs & gurus???) Truth is, life on this earth is a struggle…always has been, always will be. In my opinion, a more preferred higher consciousness is one that is bathed in a personal relationship with God (the only God), who can help us get through the toils of life and then attain “perfect peace and perfect spirituality.”
Just my thoughts…seasoned by da Granny.
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is God's gift, that's why we call it the present..." Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece!

Lori Beth · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject:

appreciate-ya! uncleBud xo
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listener · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject:

Uncle Bud, the number is still small but more and more devoted Christian physists believe that evolution is a process that God has used in creating the earth for humanity several billion years after creating the universe and over an approximately million year period on earth created all the conditions necessary for humankind some hundred thousand years ago.

I have just finished reading The Phenomenon Of Man by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin a Jesuit Priest and Palentologist who died in 1955. References by other Roman Christian writers with interests in mental health led me there. It was a fascinating read. Chardin contends that consciiousness for humankind is what separates us from animals and is humankind's greatest asset formed under God's guidance. Man with consciousness he says participates in how he will evolve from here and for us that is all important. He contends that if we are to evolve toward more consciousness which he defines as more seeing God realistically we must use free will and will suffer the hardships of being fallible. Jesus was necessary he contends to show us how God loves and without that guidance we would not continue to strive to be more God like i.e. more loving and with it the behaviour that goes with being more loving.

If anyone should read the book I think they would see where my descriptions came from but the book is written in highly technical scientific jargon so one would see much paraphraising.

UncleBud · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 2236 Location: Peach State

Listener, after having read some history of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, I have personally concluded that he was a conflicted man. As his interest in human paleontology grew, he tried to blend his “Christian” theology with his perception of organic evolution and the impact of matter in the creation of the universe and life as we know it. As a result of his theories, he was 'exiled' from France by the Jesuit order and censored by the Church.
An interesting read about his life can be found at: http://www.theharbinger.org/articles/rel_sci/birx.html

A very critical review of his book The Phenomenon of Man can be found at http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Medawar/phenomenon-of-man.html
Of note is the fact that the author of the critical review (Sir Peter Medawar) won the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1960 for work on tissue transplantation, which eventually helped make organ transplants possible. He was apparently an author in his own right and wrote several works on science and philosophy. I suspect there was some ego and competition for recognition at work in his analysis. However, Medawar’s last paragraph in his article reads:
“I have read and studied The Phenomenon of Man with real distress, even with despair. Instead of wringing our hands over the Human Predicament, we should attend to those parts of it which are wholly remediable, above all to the gullibility which makes it possible for people to be taken in by such a bag of tricks as this. If it were an innocent, passive gullibility it would be excusable; but all too clearly, alas, it is an active willingness to be deceived.”
I believe there is some truth in that thought.

Some quotes by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin that could make one raise an eyebrow (depending on which side of the fence you might be on) are as follows:
“We are not human-beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience.”
“Without you, without your onslaughts, without your uprootings of us, we should remain all our lives inert, stagnant, puerile, ignorant both of ourselves and of God. You who batter us and then dress our wounds, you who resist us and yield to us, you who wreck and build, you who shackle and liberate, the sap of our souls, the hand of God, the flesh of Christ: it is you, matter, that I bless.”
“Blessed be you, mighty matter, irresistible march of evolution, reality ever newborn; you who, by constantly shattering our mental categories, force us to go ever further and further in our pursuit of the truth.”
_________________
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is God's gift, that's why we call it the present..." Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece!

UncleBud · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 2236 Location: Peach State

Listener, here's an excert from an article I found at http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=111
that apparanatly states the position of hte Catholic Church regarding "perfection through a higher consciousness".

Perfection Through a Higher Consciousness

Proponents of the New Age movement often refer to a higher consciousness that enables man to achieve perfection or union with all. According to this mistaken belief, as man acquires a greater awareness of the common spirit in all things, he moves toward greater harmony and union with all. He achieves awareness through means like transcendental meditation. A common form of these means introduced into the Catholic Church is the technique of centering prayer. Communication with this purported higher consciousness within all things is made through Anagrams, horoscopes, and other techniques (cf. Catechism, no. 2116).

The belief in and desire for union with a higher consciousness leads to a mistaken belief that man can transcend the evils of the world through his own power. Because man himself is god (according to this view), he creates his own reality that transcends the pains and problems of the world. An immediate and dangerous error flowing from this is the belief that man does not need Christ. Evil and sin are seen as a consequence of a lack of awareness and union, not a free choice. New Age proponents believe that an individual no longer has his own conscience; rather, they believe that the conscience belongs to an accumulated whole. This belief attacks the notions of an individual soul and salvation by Christ.

We are saved by the grace of God received through the Church established by Christ. Our sins are forgiven because of Christ's death on the Cross (cf. Catechism, nos. 606 -- 23). Alone, we could never hope to achieve Heaven and attain the beatific vision of our Creator. We are not saved by our own acts, nor do we achieve union with God through techniques of transcendental meditation and means of communication with a common spirit. As noted above, belief in a higher consciousness present in all things denies the hierarchical ordering of creation. Such belief raises man to the level of God and ultimately leads to a denial of the reality of sin, guilt, eternal punishment, and the salvation offered through Christ's death on the Cross.
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is God's gift, that's why we call it the present..." Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece!

listener · Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:18 am Post subject:

Uncle Bud much of what Chardin said was way over my head but there were two very important thoughts to me in the book. God has been in control since the beginning and there is much evidence that God uses evolution in dealing with the cosmos and with humanity. I especially was drawn to his belief that as conscious individuals we can and must participate in our evolution.

Rather than see increased consciousness as coming from meditation I see it coming through experiences like those you had with your religious trips to Russia and elsewhere. And more generally in facing new challenges that come in a more complex world. One of the greatest challenges we now have is how to control the use of nuclear weapons so that we don't destroy all life on earth. God could of course prevent us from doing so but I am not sure that is His plan. His plan may be to leave us to our devices and if we fail to start over. Is that part of free will?

To truly love as God loves the very best we can would be a good starting point for living a more conscious life IMO>

UncleBud · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 2236 Location: Peach State

Listener, I've often marveled at the intelligence of our founding fathers and other people of profound intellect in times past. Not many people nowadays could compete on their level. It causes me to think that it is the evolution of technology that is advancing (?) mankind and not the human intellect. In fact, I sometimes believe that we (esp. governments) are “dumbing down” society in favor of political correctness or political gain. In my opinion, the “evolution” of mankind may be going in the wrong direction. The select few technically intelligent people that are advancing technology are sorely lacking in the desire or ability to enter into thought provoking philosophical or spiritual debate such as that demonstrated by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Technology is wonderful and we all benefit from it every day. However, as I see trends developing, like keyboards replacing cursive writing, computers replacing brain power, disc drives and “the cloud” replacing books and filing cabinets, I wonder what the future will look like. Assume there is a catastrophic event (nuclear war or asteroid collision) and most of mankind is obliterated and electrical power is non-existent, will the new generation know how and where to access the information that is available to us today? Will we have to “evolve” again into a consciousness that superintends technological advances and causes us to (as you say) learn through experiences? I agree that as conscious individuals we can and must participate in our evolution, but it seems to me that our participation is very limited due to external influences that dictate the directions our lives will take. That’s why (IMO) the day-to-day guidance, blessing and support we should seek from God is so very important in helping us to evolve into that more spiritual and loving entity He would have us to be.
_________________
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is God's gift, that's why we call it the present..." Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece!

listener · Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject:

Unckle Bud I agree with almost everything you said. Let me give you an example of how I see increased consciusness serving mankind. I believe that God is somehow in all persons, not to the extent of everyone knowing what to believe in a theological sense, but in the sense of a basic knowing what is good and what not. Some of our forefathers had slaves. If they were living now I think none would. I think that persons seeing slaves as God does played a role in the end of slavery in the U S. We are a long way from seeing ex slaves as our equala Imo. Much of the reason we dont is based on their behaviour but over time as prejudice fades I think more and more people will see others as equal. (I am seeing that in my grandchildren now). The more contact persons have with each other the greater is consciousness in human relations IMO and the more likely fellings of equality based only on behaviour.

I enloy your thoughts.

UncleBud · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 2236 Location: Peach State

You are right, Listener. As I reflect on my younger days growing up in Mississippi, I recall walking to school and seeing leaflets in peoples' yards scattered by the KKK. The leaflets compared the negro to apes, listing in detail their perception of the similarities in the various body parts, complete with diagrams. Schools were segregated back then. Now my daughter makes no distinction in race or color when talking about her friends, many of whom are black. Times do change, and I suppose one could call that social evolution.
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is God's gift, that's why we call it the present..." Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece!

Mudloggerone · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 29716 Location: Franklin Parish

Sum changes are good, some aren't.
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Cat 2-15, Lil' 3-20, 13 yr 3-21 (lace)

UncleBud · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 2236 Location: Peach State

I keep my shotgun handy for dem times dat aren't... Wink

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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is God's gift, that's why we call it the present..." Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece!

Mudloggerone · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 29716 Location: Franklin Parish

:nod:
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I'm a happy Deplorable that likes my Crumbs!
Cat 2-15, Lil' 3-20, 13 yr 3-21 (lace)

Mudloggerone · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 29716 Location: Franklin Parish

Granny had her kicking boot and a shovel is it got even more serious than what a boot could correct. Laughing

I always suspected she could use whatever she needed to.
_________________
I'm a happy Deplorable that likes my Crumbs!
Cat 2-15, Lil' 3-20, 13 yr 3-21 (lace)